Showing posts with label Detective Conan. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Detective Conan. Show all posts

Monday, May 5, 2025

Thank You for the Music

Last year, I started with what I have since termed the 'Detective Conan Rewatch and Reread' project—the goal being to consume the entire franchise (manga, anime series and movies) from the very start in a chronological manner. It has been an instructive experience insofar as the evolution of the art-style and the plots are concerned. Although the series spans three decades with more than 1100 chapters and episodes, it still retains a reasonable degree of freshness and originality in both its main storyline and the fillers, which accounts for its rewatchable nature. 

Although a common criticism the series faces is that its central plot is stretching for far too long, creator Gosho Aoyama's top-notch world-building more than makes up for this. The Detective Conan universe is centred mainly around the fictional Beika City, and Conan and gang often travel all across the town and beyond, resulting in a dizzying variety of settings in which each of the stories/episodes are set: from mansions and restaurants to aquarians and museums to studios to camping and festival sites, and many more. And, in a majority of the cases, the locales play as important an role as the actions of the characters in the way the stories unfold.

There are, however, a few scenarios and themes that Aoyama loves to explore from time to time: music, sports and theatre being some of them. That is why stadiums, studios and theatres have formed the backdrop of a number of significant incidents that Conan has encountered. What I have also observed is a certain consistency in the way Aoyama explores these themes. For instance, stories involving musicians and band members have invariably involved tragic deaths borne out of terrible misunderstandings. 

This template was introduced pretty early in one of the more heart-wrenching stories (no, not this one), "The Karaoke Box Murder Case" (manga chapters: 45–48, anime episode: 42). Conan and his girlfriend, Ran, are invited by their friend, Sonoko, to the private meeting of a popular band, Lex, whose lead singer Kimura Tatsuya happens to be Sonoko's latest crush. What they witness, instead, is the animosity-filled break-up of the band, with the drunken Tatsuya announcing his decision to go solo. In the karaoke box, he humiliates each member of the band, past and present, including the manager, by choosing and requesting songs that would have hit a sore spot with each of them. Finally, he sings his heart out to the tune of his hit song, "Bloody Venus"... before dramatically coughing up blood and dying.

Foreshadowing Tatsuya's death

The mystery mostly unfolds as a howdunnit, but the 'why' and 'who' aspects of it are also quite engrossing. The howdunnit concerns mostly around how Tatsuya could be poisoned without the others getting affected. There are a few plausible and well-thought-out false solutions that keep pointing the needle of suspicion towards different members, and a suicide scenario as well. [Unfortunately, these are rushed through and/or ommited in the anime adaptation of the more nuanced manga arc.] The actual solution, however, makes excellent use of the habits and mannerisms of singers while performing—something the killer uses to precise and devastating effect. Ironically enough, the culprit is revealed when Conan (using the voice of Shinichi Kudou) asks the culprit to mimic the exact actions of the deceased, and then produces the two material evidences to decisively corner the criminal.

There is no doubt that an element of fortune is required to reveal the 'who' and 'why' of it all, but it doesn't make the tragedy any less poignant. At the centre of it is Aoyama's reflection on how musical fame and stardom can quietly devastate performers, make them lonely and unable to connect with their near and dear ones and communicate people. There are also two cautionary messages—one on taking one's need to be noticed and loved to extreme levels by making drastic changes to one's personality, the other on masking vulnerability, keeping up a facade, and displaying too much of tough love—both of which play major roles in the unfolding of the tragedy of the karaoke box.

Aoyama takes a shot at the extremes of manipulated musical fandom in "The Devil of the TV Station" (manga chapters: 591–593, anime episode: 488). Conan and his friends Mitsuhiko, Ayumi, and Genta, along with Professor Agasa, visit a TV station to see the studio of a popular kids' show, Kamen Yaiba. The plan, however, fails to materialize, as the actress, Yoko Okino, who had invited them for the tour, mentions that their schedules are tight and packed for the day. Instead, they come across Satan Onizuka, the lead singer of the visual kei band Styx III, in full KISS/Satan makeup, who is scheduled for a TV appearance in the afternoon. Back in his dressing room, Onizuka asks his manager to order food from three outlets as well as a hand mirror to fix his makeup (since the mirrors in his room are broken). He also expressly instructs the manager not to let anyone disturb or enter the room since he would be removing his makeup and take a nap in his room before the interview. The next time, we encounter Onizuka is when Mitsuhiko knocks on the door of his room, requesting an autograph for his sister. Onizuka appears, once again, in full makeup—an appearance that also coincides with the arrival of the police as Tenji Urushibara, the president of the entertainment company representing Onizuka and his band, is found dead in the station with several stab wounds. Suspicion naturally falls on Onizuka who recently had a heated argument with Tenji, but Onizuka has a solid defence—how could he have committed the deed with his makeup on, and with no one in the busy station having observed his movements from his room to the president's, two floors above?

The devil's due: outlining a murder plan

While less musically inclined than "The Karaoke Box Murder", "The Devil of the TV Station" certainly has its points of interest. The modus operandi of the murder is a tightrope act involving multiple moving parts and actors—makeup, impersonation, origami, rulers, raincoats, and restaurant delivery people. In particular, I like the rationale behind the use of three different restaurants to deliver food. However, with a limited cast, the case unfolds much like an episode of Columbo or Furuhata Ninzaburou—here too, the audience is made aware pretty early on who the culprit is; only the method remains to be uncovered. 

A dash of tragedy is added in the murder motive—it is here that Aoyama critiques the excesses and manipulation of musical fandom. At a time when Onizuka had lost his voice three years ago, a young girl took her own life and 'offered her blood' as a sacrifice to aid Onizuka's recovery—a horrific event stemming from a stunt by Tenji who left messages in Onizuka's name (unbeknownst to the singer himself) on online forums and message boards exhorting the followers to offer sacrifices. The event leaves a terrible scar on Onizuka himself, who visits the girl's parents, then spirals into depression, and loses his creative songwriting impulses, leading to a dissociation between him as a person and the persona he portrays and the lyrics (on curses, death, destruction, and violence) that he sings as Satan Onizuka. He is further trapped between a rock and a hard place when Tenji denies him permission to hold a farewell performance for Styx III, instead threatening him with legal action if he chose to walk out before the contract extracted. It is this toxic cocktail of tipping points that ultimately leads to the events of "The Devil of the TV Station".

Tragedy strikes again in "The Unfriendly Girls' Band" (manga chapters: 936–938, anime episodes: 836–837), which begins with the big-mouthed Sonoko all gung-ho on starting a high school girls' band. After being embarrassed in Café Poirot (below the Kogorou detective agency) for not being able to play the guitar, Sonoko saves face due to the intervention of Tooru Amuro (or Rei Furuya), another notable detective in the Detective Conan canon, who instructs her on the need to practice. An inspired Sonoko proceeds to drag her classmates, Ran and Sera Masumi (yet another detective), along with Tooru and Conan, to a recording studio. Unfortunately, the rooms all being booked, they have to wait for a fair amount of time during which they encounter a girls' band whose guitarist rebukes all the members for their flawed rehearsals in preparation for a funeral concert for their deceased bandmate, a singer. They adjourn for a 10-minute break, and during which interval Sonoko tries to select the preferred members and their roles for the band. Their reverie is rudely interrupted by a scream—and when Conan, Tooru, and Sera rush to the scene, they find one of the members of the girls' band they had seen previously slumped over the drum set, after being strangled. The CCTV camera footage should have captured the scene and action of crime—either directly or through a reflection on the mirror behind the performance area—but half of the camera was covered by a phone on a selfie stick attached to the mic to record the rehearsal, while curtains had been drawn covering the mirror, on the victim's request. As a result, the footage captured only the victim's slumped-over state without a trace of the perpetrator.

The investigation in progress

While "The Karaoke Box Murder" exploits the habitual itches of performers, "The Unfriendly Girls' Band" makes great use of positional awareness and knowledge of how a band sets itself up on the stage, to figure out how the position of the recording phone was manipulated and whodunnit in the absence of proper CCTV footage. I am less sold, however, on the mechanics of making the murder weapon disappear—a method which, while admittedly inspired, seems improbable to pull off perfectly, without hiccups, in that short a time-frame.

Like the previous two stories, "The Unfriendly Girls' Band" also unfolds as a revenge tragedy due to the underlying motive and backstory. At the centre of it all is a dual misconception regarding the death of their previous bandmate, the singer who had damaged her voice while acting on the advice of the current case's victim. The singer patched things up with the bandmate who had erroneously guided her, and started following the instructions to heal herself up to a t. However, she died while trying to save a boy from a car collision, instead of shouting to warn him—an incident that leads the present case's victim to feel even more guilty. Another bandmate (the perpetrator of the current case) remains unaware of these details, having gone into shock, and solely blames her fellow performer for driving the singer to commit suicide. This intersecting maze of emotions and mistaken beliefs ultimately culminates in the tragic events seen in this storyline.

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Songs and music tunes are often believed to bring out human emotions and sentiments in a manner that connects, either viscerally or transcendentally, with the audience at large. However, as these three stories depict, Aoyama subverts these expectations by turning music, songs, and the musical persona into tools of miscommunication and misunderstanding that shed a light on the blind spots that even music and songs cannot illuminate. By purposefully showing the pressures and strains that come with musical performances and showmanship, Aoyama skilfully explores what happens when the musical product is based upon foundations of tragedy, mistaken perceptions and the unpredictable human nature—and how these murky associations can cause a presumably liberating force such as music and songs to be bogged down by the all-too-sordid reality of crime and murder. 

Saturday, July 3, 2021

They Do It with Mirrors

"A queer thing is a mirror; a picture frame that holds hundreds of different pictures, all vivid and all vanished for ever."
—Father Brown in "The Mirror of the Magistrate"

Mirrors, in literature, often serve dramatical, theatrical functions—that of exposing the vanity of characters, showing the true face of people or revealing a side to a person's nature (an alter ego, if you will) that was hitherto unknown. In crime fiction, however, these props are used for a different, more practical, purpose—cleverly used in the right circumstance, it allows culprits to mislead readers and investigators, allowing them to obtain an alibi, or even more, the means to establish their innocence.

There are a number of tools and tricks criminals employ to wriggle out of a tight situation and to cast suspicion on others. Altering clocks and manipulating the observer's perceptions of time. An alternate location (the real scene) identical, in all respects, to the perceived 'crime scene'—a spatial red herring, so to say. A mutual 'exchange of victims' between conspirators. Bribing witnesses or making use of a 'stand-in' to buy false testimony. Another character willingly or unwittingly covering up for and shielding the mastermind. Stories generally use one or a combination of these devices to further their own ends.

To this list, we must add the simple but effective tool called the mirror as a major player in the misdirection department. Used on its own, the mirror is, perhaps, not a tool to distort your perception of time; instead, it skews your spatial awareness. This is an especially effective trap for those who rely on their keen sense of sight—with a mirror around, nothing is quite what it seems and things that shouldn't be present in a particular place come into view. The best part about 'mirror magic' is its fleetingly permanent nature, used almost in an instant but having a long-lasting, illusionary effect on the eyes and minds of those witnessing it. The challenge lies, firstly, in the creation of the correct conditions for its effective use and then devising ways to break the illusion in a believable, decisive manner.

***

In a previous post, I spoke about Detective Conan, one of the pillars of modern Japanese detective fiction. Predating it by two years is another ongoing crime manga and anime franchise that has had an equally lasting effect on the genre. Kindaichi Shōnen no Jikenbo (The Kindaichi Case Files or The Case Files of Young Kindaichi) started in 1992 as a chronicle of the adventures of 17-year-old high school student Hajime Kindaichi (introduced, non-canonically, as the grandson of Seishi Yokomizo's great detective Kosuke Kindaichi) who continuously gets embroiled in and solves impossible and locked-room crimes—a fate that even the 37-year-old Hajime hasn't been able to escape in the new seinen series, Kindaichi 37-sai no Jikenbo (The Case Files of 37-Year-Old Kindaichi). Apart from the sheer wealth and variety of impossible and locked-room crime scenarios devised by the authors, the series is famous for two other eccentricities—young Hajime's iconic catchphrase (unfortunately, no longer a staple) and the laughably cartoonish names Hajime bestows upon his opponents that would give Scooby Doo a run for its money.

The first three episodes of the first season of the anime, "Gakuen Nana Fushigi Satsujin Jiken" (The School's Seven Mysteries Murder Case), are set in Hajime's alma mater, Fudo High School. The story makes excellent use of urban legends and the 'forbidden', 'prohibited' areas in the school to deliver a mystery whose roots and motives are surprisingly dark for a young audience. The body count, both in the past and the present, is notoriously high—and death visits those who try to uncover the seven mysteries (especially those in the older school building) and the truth behind it all, courtesy of the 'After-School Magician'.

The After-School Magician enacts a bloody ritual
The After-School Magician enacts a bloody ritual

The centrepiece of the story is the 'execution' of a student that happens in the biology laboratory in the old building. Hajime and the others around him—all present in the new building at that time— are afforded only a glimpse of the scene but the impossibility of the crime strikes home when they find the doors and windows of the laboratory to be locked with no trace of the candles and other creepy ritualistic decorations they had seen. The old wire trick is found to be applicable for the windows but that soon turns out to be a red herring. More attempts to murder follow, and the case becomes a real puzzler in no time.

The elegance of the entire case lies in the use of a single mirror in brilliantly fitting surroundings in the first case. The conditions for employing a mirror are all there: long corridors in almost pitch-black darkness, the setup the culprit uses to direct the observers to exactly where he wants, the positional awareness of the culprit regarding the witnesses' viewing spot and what their linear line of sight will lead them to believe, an exceptional use of the advantages of the building's layout especially with its sharp corners and ultimately, the absolutely brief period of the view offered. 

These elements make for a stimulating setup, but I am also happy to note that it is resolved in a satisfying manner as well. What leads Hajime to unravel the deceit is a chance observation by his childhood friend Miyuki, hospitalised following an attack by the 'After-School Magician'. It is an innocent request, and believable too on her part—asking him to draw the curtain so that her eyes can be shielded from the blinding sun, reflected by a building with a glass exterior. But, it is also one of those genuine 'aha' moments that allows a precocious detective like Hajime to completely turn the case around on its head, while offering clarity and joy for the reader too. More brownie points for you if you managed to deduce what had happened, before this point.

When it comes to the resolution of mirror illusions, the same, unfortunately, cannot be said of a rather slow-paced Detective Conan story, "Konan Heiji no Suiri Majikku" (Conan and Heiji's Deduction Magic)—which is a shame because it presents an absolutely compelling, mouthwatering conundrum. After attending a magic show, Conan and his detective-rival Hattori Heiji, along with their girlfriends Ran and Kazuha, are invited by some magicians to the house of their mentor who disappeared 10 years ago. The girls are being given a tour of this house filled with tricks when, fittingly enough, a case occurs. The girls and their guide are in a narrow, dark corridor with rooms on either side when a blackout occurs. When the lights return a moment later, they are shocked to find the corpse of one of the magicians they had met earlier in the dead end of the passage, when the moment before there had been none. The solution is ingenious and makes good use of the magical nature of the house—two identical-looking passages at right angles to each other separated by a double-layered, thick door split in the middle with facing mirrors on the back side of both parts of the door. But, I am afraid that the way the detectives are clued on to this trick is quite the stretch—it relies on the girls observing, in an instant, the changing position of a vase's shadow before and after the incident, at a time when they must have been shaken and scared out of their wits.

The discovery of the magician's body in a dead-end corner—or is it?
The discovery of the magician's body in a dead-end corner—or is it?

In crime stories, when it comes to incorporating believable, optical, mirror-based illusions that do not stretch the limits of 'suspension of disbelief', I believe less is more. Too many mirrors do spoil the broth—as is the case in the Kindaichi story, "Majin Iseki Satsujin Jiken" (Demon God Site Murder Case) where an excessive number of mirrors intricately arranged in the lower floor of a mansion, deliberately smashed, seems extremely forced (even though it have been necessary) when the floor plan still exists and becomes too glaring a clue to decipher a cryptic cipher and discover the location of the treasure at the centre of all the incidents. 

Instead, an elegant simplicity can be incorporated by relying on natural optical phenomena made visible by a single mirror. This is evident in another story in the Kindaichi canon, "Kindaichi Fumi Yuukai Jiken" (Fumi Kindaichi Kidnapping Case), a compact case involving the kidnapping of Hajime's cousin, Fumi. Hajime relies on Fumi's descriptions, relayed unbeknownst to her captor, deduce her whereabouts but that is not enough to pinpoint the exact location even though four buildings, not exactly close to each other, become probable suspects. In a nice turn of events, ironically, it is Hajime's realisation of the 'impossibility' of Fumi's descriptions, and his awareness of the sun's position in each of the suspected locations and the presence of a certain building with glassy, mirrored exteriors that finally helps Hajime find the right location just in the nick of time. The modus operandi of the revelation has parallels to the hint the Miyuki unwittingly provides Hajime in the first story of the anime series, and is, therefore, a kind of in-series commentary and meta-tribute in its own right. For longstanding fans such as myself, these touches are, indeed, most rewarding and satisfying to spot.

***

This has been quite a long, rambling post on some thoughts I have had over the past week on the use of certain tools in detective and crime fiction. In fact, the post turned out to be very different from what I had originally intended. I quite like the approach I took here, though—and, moving forward, apart from reviews, I will perhaps publish more write-ups that analyse the elements of the genre and the ways in which they function or are employed, both minutely as well as in a more generalised manner. After all, the genre owes a hefty debt to these elements that have made it so addictive in the first place.

Sunday, June 13, 2021

A Nosy Affair

When I first conceived of this blog, I imagined it to be a space where I would talk exclusively about Asian (in particular, Japanese) crime fiction. And while the first post is probably a sign that is no longer the case, much of what I plan to write here will be my thoughts and commentary on books, films and series (animated or otherwise) from said region.

I was introduced to Japanese crime fiction courtesy of a television channel called Hungama TV, which once aired 30 episodes of Detective Conan, dubbed in Hindi, over the course of two seasons. It was a curious choice to broadcast them on a channel meant primarily for kids—most Indian parents I have come across have extreme reservations on letting their children see anything that has blood and violence; Detective Conan has copious amounts of both.

Be that as it may, I remember being pretty amused at the sight of genius high-school detective Shinichi Kudo being turned into a kid (literally!) in the very first episode itself. This happens after Shinichi solves a murder case on a rollercoaster while on a date with his girlfriend Ran Mouri. He then overhears a suspicious conversation between a businessman and two men in black and tails them only to be ambushed by said men in black, which finally leads to the predicament mentioned earlier.

The kid Shinichi adopts the name of Edogawa Conan (a tribute to mystery authors Edogawa Rampo and—you guessed it—Arthur Conan Doyle) to protect those near and dear to him as well as uncover the (many) brains and the mastermind behind the nefarious Black Organisation (who are responsible for his plight) and bring them to justice. And to his credit, Shinichi (or Conan) certainly stands out in a world where every fourth or fifth character (friend or foe) turns out to be a sleuth in some form or the other (hey, you can never have enough detectives after all!).

Shinichi Kudo (left) and Edogawa Conan (right) from the early days of Detective Conan
Shinichi Kudo (left) and Edogawa Conan (right) from the early days of Detective Conan

Conan's quest continues to this day. Gosho Aoyama's Meitantei Conan (as Detective Conan is known in Japan) started back in 1994 as a manga series. Conan and company's adventures have now seen over 1,000 manga chapters, 1,000-plus anime episodes, over 20 animated films, several OVAs and television specials. The prolific nature and high standards achieved make it one of the longest-running, most beloved and acclaimed literary-fiction franchises all over the world.

In my early university days, though, when I was first able to appreciate the nuances of Aoyama sensei's work, I failed to see it as anything beyond a creative and faithful tribute to the past doyens of mystery fiction. This was especially true in the case of the first few volumes of the manga and the first 50-odd episodes of the animated series, where I could spot fun, sporting and subtle nods to your Conan Doyles, John Dickson Carrs and Ellery Queens, but not much else besides.

My opinion changed drastically, however, when I saw episode 52—an episode I still believe really helped the series stand out on its own and conveyed the message that it is a masterpiece like no other. This one-hour TV special, ominously titled "Kiri-tengu Densetsu Satsujin Jiken" (The Mist Goblin Legend Murder Case) (an adaptation of chapters 108–110 or volume 11, files 8–10, of the manga series) opens in a relatively peaceful fashion. Ran, Conan and Ran's father, the 'great detective' Kogoro Mouri, are watching cherry blossoms on the mountainside. As evening descends, they try to make their way back home—but as is often the case when Kogorou and travelling are involved, the trio manage to get themselves stranded and lost in the deep forest amidst pouring rain. They are, therefore, forced to take refuge in a temple, with a waterfall running past it, that Conan spots. In the Sandeiji temple, the group meets with the caretaker and head priest Tenei, a long- and sharp-nosed, suspicious-looking figure who agrees to accommodate them for the night for a hefty fee. They also come to know of the legend of the kiri-tengu (the mist goblin, a figure from Japanese folklore), who, in this story, is believed to kidnap young women and feast on their flesh after hanging them from trees.

The four Buddhist monks in training—Kannen, Tonnen, Mokunen and Shunen—take Conan, Kogoro and Ran on a tour of a temple. Here, Conan's attention is drawn to a small room with an extremely high ceiling, a window near the top and a gap near the bottom guarded by a door. On asking, they find out that the room is a 'training room' for monks who isolate themselves to observe penance after being punished. There's also talk of a certain 'incident' in the room some years ago, which seems to have been the handiwork of the kiri-tengu, but Tenei abruptly and angrily brings a halt to all discussions on the subject. All the characters pass restless nights—and the unease deepens further the following morning when the head priest is found hanging from a beam high up in the ceiling of the training room. It's as if the kiri-tengu itself had hung Tenei there—and when the police arrive, Conan and Kogoro learn that, two years ago, another monk Chunen had been found hanging from the very same beam in an identical fashion, a case the police had ruled out as suicide. Can Conan and Kogoro solve the mystery of both murders and unmask the kiri-tengu?

The dastardly kiri-tengu 'hangs' Tenei Oshou
The dastardly kiri-tengu 'hangs' Tenei Oshou

Seasoned readers of Japanese detective fiction will probably realise that this somewhat long and elaborate setup screams 'Seishi Yokomizo' from the get-go. Elements from the works of this master of crime fiction are all here in this episode. A remote location? Check. A case with links to Japanese folklore? Yes. And just as a waterbody plays a major role in Yokomizo's The Honjin Murders (more precisely, the mechanism of a waterwheel on a nearby stream), here too, the waterfall adjoining the temple plays a very influential part here.

And yet, Conan solves the case not in the manner of a Kosuke Kindaichi (the detective from Yokomizo's series) but in his own characteristic way. The 'howdunnit' aspect of the story is a sheer delight, the solution to which will logically lead you to find out 'whodunnit'. It's all fair and above board too—what I like most about the culprit's plan is that it uses the natural features and the 'potential' of the 'training room' to maximum effect by using tools and tricks (none too fancy) that are present in the temple and won't leave you wondering, "Hmmm, how and from where could they have procured these tools in such a short time?" 

The main trick is a variation of one that I have seen executed successfully in a horizontal space (say, a crop field for instance) but never in a vertical space. It is quite unique, but never for a moment does it feel forced or that it does not belong or feels out of place in a setting such as a mountain temple. There is a meticulous yet commonsensical, DIY nature to the physics and dynamics of the tricks here, all of which are neatly tied up and explained in the end.

The episode plays it very fairly with the viewers as well. It invites them to completely immerse themselves in the story being told and pay particular attention to every conversation and scene in order to pick out the select clues that can solve the crime. By the time the deduction starts, you have in your possession all the information, visual and verbal, to unravel the mystery, even though you will probably need to exercise your imagination judiciously to get you started.

The kiri-tengu baffles Conan and the others
The kiri-tengu baffles Conan and the others

The most damning clue that specifically reveals the culprit is also presented in a most human manner. Quite refreshingly, this is not a case of the detectives intellectually outsmarting the criminal hands-down; neither is it an 'oversight' by the murderer. In the course of the episode, both the criminal and the detectives are evenly balanced and look for the same clue—it's just that the sleuths get to it and understand its significance faster than the criminal can hide or destroy it. Perhaps, the only 'unfairness' I can think of comes when the culprit falls into a trap in the first place by incorrectly guessing something that happened while they were busy preparing the scene of crime so elaborately.

In an episode that is a fair-play mystery on so many levels, it is perhaps a tad bit unfortunate that the tragic motive takes a backseat. But it's really a minor peeve, especially when one considers that the episode sets so many of the rules of the game for this series—ones that defined the series and stands it in good stead even today, nearly three decades after its start.

Lastly, there's something really fitting in the use of traditional cel animation in a series such as Detective Conan. The dark tones enhance the atmosphere and feel of the mysteries in the manga so much so that it becomes all the more easier to be invested in them—wouldn't you agree?